In this episode of the PBSE podcast, we tackle the harmful myth that "men will be men" and the devastating impact it can have on relationships. Through the heart-wrenching story of a listener who faced betrayal in her second marriage, we explore the dangerous belief that certain male behaviors, like pornography addiction, are inevitable and excusable. We discuss the critical importance of authentic decision-making, and the power of empathy and self-compassion in healing from betrayal trauma. Ultimately, we aim to empower both partners to take accountability and reclaim their agency, offering a path forward that honors their worth and well-being.
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Inside this Episode:
Introduction: The Dilemma of “Men Will Be Men”
In this episode of the PBSE podcast, we dive deep into a critical and often misunderstood topic: the dangerous and pervasive belief that certain behaviors, particularly those associated with men, should be accepted as inevitable or intrinsic to male nature. This belief, often casually tossed around as if it were a harmless stereotype, has profound and damaging implications for relationships, particularly when those behaviors are destructive.
We titled this episode "Men will Just be Men—Live with it?" with a big question mark and the word "REALLY?!" in all caps for a reason. We intended it to be sarcastic, to challenge and provoke thought, and to make a point that we feel is often missed or ignored. This episode is not just about questioning a cliché but about dismantling a harmful myth that too often leads to pain, betrayal, and disillusionment in relationships.
To kick things off, we address a poignant and heart-wrenching submission from a listener. This listener, a partner who has been through a great deal of pain, reached out to share her devastating experiences with us. Her story, as we read through it, hit us hard. It’s one of those stories that’s emblematic of what so many partners of addicts feel, and it serves as the foundation for our discussion in this episode. Her question, her pain, and her search for answers encapsulate a struggle that is all too common, yet often goes unspoken. Our response to her is not just about addressing her specific situation but offering guidance to others who might find themselves in similar circumstances.
But before we dive into her story and the broader issues it raises, let’s take a moment to consider the phrase "Men will be men." What does it really mean, and why is it so damaging? This phrase is often used to excuse a wide range of behaviors, from minor annoyances to major betrayals. It's a phrase that’s been ingrained in our culture, used to brush off accountability and responsibility. By saying "Men will be men," we’re essentially saying that certain behaviors are not only expected but should be tolerated.
This mindset is problematic for several reasons. First, it perpetuates a stereotype that reduces men to a set of uncontrollable impulses. It suggests that men are driven by their biology to act in ways that are harmful or disrespectful, and that they are incapable of change. This is not only demeaning to men but also places an unfair burden on their partners, who are left to deal with the fallout of these behaviors.
Second, it creates a culture of acceptance around behaviors that should be challenged and changed. When we say "Men will be men," we’re telling men that it’s okay to continue acting in ways that hurt others, because they can’t help it. This not only absolves them of responsibility but also prevents them from growing and becoming better partners, friends, and human beings.
Lastly, this mindset is deeply damaging to relationships. It undermines trust, fosters resentment, and creates an environment where harmful behaviors are normalized rather than addressed. For partners of men who engage in these behaviors, it’s a message that their pain is less important than maintaining the status quo, that they should just "live with it" rather than expecting better.
This is why we felt it was so important to address this topic in our podcast. We want to challenge this harmful mindset and offer a different perspective—one that holds men accountable for their actions, empowers their partners to demand more, and ultimately fosters healthier, more fulfilling relationships.
The Story That Broke Our Hearts
The listener’s story begins with her first marriage, which lasted almost a decade. This was not a marriage marked by love and mutual respect, but by severe abuse—physical, emotional, and psychological. The abuse she endured was compounded by her husband’s substance abuse and addiction to pornography. This was a toxic environment, a living nightmare from which she eventually found the strength to escape. She left, taking her children with her, determined to start anew and build a better life for herself and her kids.
For years, she focused on healing. She knew that the trauma she had experienced would take time to recover from, and she was careful about entering into any new relationships. She didn’t want to repeat the same mistakes, so she approached dating with caution, taking her time to get to know potential partners before making any commitments.
Eventually, she met someone new. This man seemed different from her first husband in all the ways that mattered. He was kind, supportive, and attentive. They started dating, but even then, she didn’t rush into things. They dated long-distance for three years, a period during which she thought she had done everything right. She believed that this time, she had found someone she could trust, someone who would treat her with the respect and love she deserved.
But just a month into their marriage, her world came crashing down once again. She discovered that her new husband had a pornography issue—something he had kept hidden from her throughout their entire relationship. This revelation was like a nuclear bomb, shattering the life she had so carefully tried to rebuild. All the old fears, the trauma, the pain she thought she had left behind, came rushing back.
Her letter to us was filled with despair, confusion, and heartbreak. She grappled with the realization that she might have made another huge mistake, despite all her efforts to avoid this very situation. Her husband's response to her discovery only deepened her pain. He claimed that his "need" for pornography was simply a part of being a man, something she could never understand because she was a woman. This explanation left her feeling hopeless and disillusioned. She began to question whether she could ever expect complete fidelity from any man. Was she destined to be betrayed again and again? Would she ever be enough for a man to stay faithful to her, not just physically, but emotionally and mentally as well?
As she continued to write, her pain became even more palpable. She expressed a deep fear that if her husband—who she described as an upstanding, moral, and loving individual in so many other ways—could betray her in this way and then dismiss it as simply the essence of being a man, what hope did she have? If this was the best she could expect, she wrote, then she would rather be alone than live with the constant fear and insecurity that he would always be seeking sexual gratification outside their marriage.
Her letter ended with a plea for help, for wisdom, for some kind of direction in a situation that felt utterly hopeless. She signed off as "one jaded, exhausted, heartbroken wife," and our hearts broke with hers as we read her words.
This is a story that is all too common, a story that many partners of addicts could tell in one form or another. It’s a story of betrayal, of shattered trust, and of the deep, lingering pain that comes from being deceived by someone you love. And as tragic as it is, this story is emblematic of what so many who listen to our podcast are going through.
As we discussed her situation, we couldn’t help but feel a deep empathy for her. We could only imagine the courage it took for her to reach out, to share her story with us, and to ask for help. We wanted to do more than just offer her words of comfort; we wanted to provide her with some tangible guidance, something that could help her find a way forward in what seemed like an impossible situation.
The Myth of Male Necessity
As we reflected on the listener’s story, one thing became abundantly clear: we needed to address the harmful and pervasive myth that men have an inherent "need" for pornography or similar behaviors. This notion, which has been perpetuated for far too long, is not only false but also incredibly damaging. It’s a myth that excuses and even justifies behaviors that hurt others, particularly partners who are deeply affected by them.
We firmly reject the idea that men are biologically or psychologically compelled to engage in such behaviors. Instead, we emphasize that these actions are choices—choices that men must take responsibility for. The idea that men have some uncontrollable "need" for pornography is nothing more than an excuse to avoid accountability. It’s a way of shifting the blame away from the individual and onto some supposed biological imperative, which is not only inaccurate but also deeply harmful.
This myth is often perpetuated by phrases like "boys will be boys" or "men will be men," which suggest that certain behaviors are just part of being a man. These phrases are often used to excuse everything from minor transgressions to major betrayals, as if being male somehow absolves one of the responsibility for one’s actions. But let’s be clear: this is not just a harmless stereotype. It’s a dangerous and damaging mindset that allows men to continue engaging in behaviors that hurt others, while avoiding the consequences of those actions.
Let’s take a closer look at what this myth really means. When we say "men will be men," we’re essentially saying that men are driven by their biology to act in ways that are harmful or disrespectful, and that they are incapable of change. This is not only demeaning to men, reducing them to a set of uncontrollable impulses, but it also places an unfair burden on their partners, who are left to deal with the fallout of these behaviors.
This mindset also creates a culture of acceptance around behaviors that should be challenged and changed. When we say "men will be men," we’re telling men that it’s okay to continue acting in ways that hurt others, because they can’t help it. This not only absolves them of responsibility but also prevents them from growing and becoming better partners, friends, and human beings. It’s a mindset that stunts personal growth and perpetuates harmful patterns of behavior.
Moreover, this mindset is deeply damaging to relationships. It undermines trust, fosters resentment, and creates an environment where harmful behaviors are normalized rather than addressed. For partners of men who engage in these behaviors, it’s a message that their pain is less important than maintaining the status quo, that they should just "live with it" rather than expecting better.
But here’s the truth: men are not slaves to their biology. They are capable of making choices, of exercising self-control, and of changing their behaviors. The idea that men have a "need" for pornography or other harmful behaviors is a myth that needs to be debunked once and for all. Men are responsible for their actions, just like anyone else, and they should be held accountable for the choices they make.
One of the reasons this myth persists is because it’s convenient. It allows men to avoid the hard work of introspection, of confronting their own flaws and weaknesses, and of making the necessary changes to become better people. It’s easier to say "I can’t help it, it’s just the way I am" than it is to take a hard look at oneself and make the changes that are needed.
But true growth and change require accountability. They require a willingness to face one’s own shortcomings, to take responsibility for one’s actions, and to make the necessary changes to become a better partner, a better friend, and a better human being. This is not easy work, but it is essential for anyone who wants to build healthy, fulfilling relationships.
For the listener who shared her story with us, and for anyone else who finds themselves in a similar situation, it’s important to remember that you deserve better. You deserve a partner who is willing to do the hard work of growth and change, who is willing to take responsibility for their actions, and who is committed to building a healthy, respectful relationship. Don’t let anyone tell you that you should just "live with it" because "men will be men." You deserve more than that, and so does your relationship.
The Importance of Authentic Decision-Making
As we move deeper into the discussion, we shift our focus to the listener’s dilemma and her struggle to make sense of her situation. At this point, we introduce the concept of "authentic and accurate decision-making," which we believe is essential for anyone facing a crisis like the one she describes. This process involves a deep, honest examination of one’s own thinking, particularly in recognizing any potential errors that might be influenced by trauma.
For the listener, this means acknowledging the complex trauma she has experienced—not just from her first marriage but now from her second as well. Trauma can have a profound impact on the way we think, feel, and make decisions. It can distort our perceptions, making it difficult to see things clearly or to trust our own judgment.
In this listener’s case, the trauma of her first marriage undoubtedly left deep scars. She worked hard to heal from that trauma, but now, with the discovery of her new husband’s pornography use, those old wounds have been reopened. The pain, fear, and confusion she’s experiencing are not just about this new betrayal—they’re also about the trauma she endured in her first marriage.
It’s important for her to recognize how this trauma might be shaping her thoughts, feelings, and decisions in the present. One of the ways trauma can affect us is by leading us into black-and-white thinking. This is a common response to trauma, where we tend to see things as all good or all bad, without recognizing the nuances and complexities that often exist in between.
For example, the listener might be viewing herself harshly, questioning her own judgment and worth because of what has happened. She might be asking herself, "How could I let this happen again? What’s wrong with me that I keep ending up in these situations?" This kind of black-and-white thinking can lead to a lot of self-blame and can make it difficult to see the situation clearly.
But here’s the thing: doing your due diligence—taking your time, dating carefully, and making thoughtful decisions—does not guarantee a perfect outcome. It is possible to do everything right and still encounter difficulties, especially when those difficulties involve another person’s choices and behaviors. The fact that things didn’t turn out as she hoped is not a reflection of her worth or her intelligence. It’s simply a reminder that life is unpredictable, and that we can’t control the actions of others.
This is why authentic decision-making is so important. It’s about making decisions that are true to who you are, based on a clear understanding of your own needs, values, and boundaries. It’s about recognizing the impact of trauma on your thinking and making a conscious effort to separate the past from the present.
For the listener, this might mean taking some time to really reflect on what she wants and needs in this situation. It might mean seeking out support from a therapist or a trusted friend who can help her process her feelings and gain some clarity. It might also mean giving herself permission to not have all the answers right away, and to take things one step at a time.
It’s also important for her to recognize that she has choices in this situation. She might feel trapped or powerless right now, but she is not. She has the power to make decisions that are in her best interest, that honor her needs and her well-being. Whether that means working through things with her husband, setting new boundaries, or even ending the relationship, the decision is hers to make.
Authentic decision-making is about reclaiming your power and agency in a situation where you might feel powerless. It’s about making choices that are true to who you are, rather than being driven by fear, guilt, or the expectations of others. And most importantly, it’s about recognizing that you deserve to live a life that is fulfilling, that honors your worth, and that brings you peace.
The Husband’s Responsibility: Facing the Truth
As we turn our attention to the husband’s role in this situation, we challenge the notion that he can simply excuse his behavior by claiming it is part of being a man. This is a dangerous and damaging excuse, one that absolves him of responsibility for his actions and places an unfair burden on his wife. Instead, we argue that he has a responsibility to face the truth of his actions and the impact they have had on his wife and their marriage.
Taking responsibility means more than just admitting that what he did was wrong. It means taking full accountability for his choices and working towards genuine recovery. It means recognizing the pain he has caused his wife, and making a commitment to do the hard work of rebuilding trust and repairing the damage that has been done.
One of the first steps in this process is for him to acknowledge the trauma that his wife has endured—not just from his actions, but from her previous marriage as well. If he truly wants to repair the relationship, he must be willing to understand and address the deep wounds that his behavior has reopened. This requires empathy, patience, and a genuine desire to support her healing.
But empathy alone is not enough. He must also take concrete, tangible actions to demonstrate his commitment to change. This might involve seeking out therapy or a support group for himself, where he can work on understanding the root causes of his behavior and develop healthier ways of coping with his emotions and impulses. It might also involve setting up safeguards and accountability measures to ensure that he does not repeat these behaviors in the future.
It’s also important for him to understand that this process will take time. Trust is not something that can be rebuilt overnight. It will require consistent effort on his part, and a willingness to be patient and understanding as his wife works through her own feelings and heals from the trauma she has experienced.
For men who find themselves in similar situations, it’s crucial to recognize that being a good partner is about more than just providing for your family or being kind in other areas of your life. It’s about being honest, trustworthy, and accountable. It’s about recognizing when you’ve caused harm and taking responsibility for making things right.
It’s also about understanding that your actions have consequences, not just for you, but for the people you care about. When you engage in behaviors like pornography use, infidelity, or substance abuse, you’re not just hurting yourself—you’re hurting the people who love you. And the pain you cause them is real, even if you don’t fully understand it.
This is why it’s so important to take responsibility for your actions and to commit to making changes. It’s not just about saving your relationship—it’s about becoming the kind of person you want to be, someone who is worthy of trust and respect. It’s about doing the hard work of growth and change, even when it’s uncomfortable or difficult.
For the listener’s husband, this is a critical moment. He has the opportunity to step up and take responsibility for his actions, to support his wife in her healing, and to work towards rebuilding the trust that has been broken. But it’s up to him to make that choice. No one can do it for him, and no amount of excuses or justifications will make up for the pain he has caused.
Ultimately, the question he needs to ask himself is this: Am I willing to do the hard work of change? Am I willing to take responsibility for my actions, to face the truth of what I’ve done, and to make amends? If the answer is yes, then there is hope for healing and for rebuilding the relationship. But if the answer is no, then he needs to be honest with himself and his wife about what that means for their future.
The Role of Empathy in Recovery
A significant portion of our discussion in this episode is devoted to the concept of empathy and its crucial role in recovery. We share our own experiences, explaining how difficult it can be for addicts to fully empathize with their partners, especially when the partner’s pain doesn’t make immediate sense to them. But empathy is not just a nice-to-have—it’s essential for recovery and for rebuilding trust in a relationship.
Empathy is about putting yourself in someone else’s shoes, about trying to understand their feelings and experiences from their perspective. It’s about being able to recognize and validate their pain, even if you don’t fully understand it. For porn addicts, this can be particularly challenging, especially if they’ve spent a long time justifying or minimizing their behaviors.
One of the biggest obstacles to empathy in recovery is defensiveness. When an addict hears their partner express pain or anger, it’s easy to become defensive, to feel like they’re being attacked or blamed. This defensiveness can lead to dismissing or minimizing the partner’s feelings, or to trying to argue or explain why the partner is wrong.
But defensiveness is a barrier to empathy, and it prevents true healing from taking place. Instead of listening and trying to understand their partner’s pain, the addict is focused on defending themselves, on protecting their own ego. This not only hurts the partner further but also makes it impossible for the addict to truly understand the impact of their actions.
To move past this defensiveness, it’s important for the addict to recognize that their partner’s pain is real and valid, even if it doesn’t make logical sense to them. The first step in empathy is to listen—really listen—to what the partner is saying, without trying to argue or explain it away. It’s about being present with their pain, about acknowledging it, and about letting them know that their feelings matter.
This doesn’t mean that the addict has to agree with everything their partner says or that they have to take on all the blame. But it does mean that they need to be willing to put their own feelings aside for a moment and focus on their partner’s experience. It means being willing to say, "I’m sorry that you’re hurting. I’m here for you. Let’s work through this together."
Empathy also means recognizing that healing is a process, not a one-time event. Just because the addict has apologized or made amends doesn’t mean that the partner’s pain will instantly disappear. It takes time to rebuild trust, and it takes time for the wounds to heal. The addict needs to be patient and understanding during this process, and they need to be willing to provide ongoing support and reassurance to their partner.
For the listener’s husband, this means recognizing that his wife’s pain is not just about his recent actions—it’s also about the trauma she experienced in her first marriage. This trauma has been triggered by his behavior, and it has brought all those old wounds to the surface. To truly support her in her healing, he needs to be willing to empathize with her experience, to understand the depth of her pain, and to provide the kind of support she needs to heal.
Empathy is not always easy, especially when it requires us to confront our own flaws and mistakes. But it’s essential for recovery and for rebuilding trust in a relationship. Without empathy, there can be no true healing, no real connection, and no lasting change.
The Power of Self-Compassion
For the listener and others in similar situations, we emphasize the importance of self-compassion. We acknowledge how easy it is for partners to fall into self-blame, questioning their own judgment and worth. But self-compassion is not about excusing oneself—it’s about recognizing one’s own humanity, one’s own inherent worth, and the complexities of life.
The listener did everything she could to ensure a different outcome in her second marriage. She took her time, made thoughtful decisions, and entered the relationship with the best of intentions. The fact that things did not turn out as she hoped is not a reflection of her worth or intelligence. It’s simply a reminder that life is unpredictable, and even the best-laid plans can sometimes go awry.
Self-compassion involves giving yourself permission to feel whatever emotions come up—whether it’s anger, sadness, fear, or confusion—without judgment. It’s about recognizing that these emotions are natural responses to a painful situation and that it’s okay to feel them. It’s about being gentle with yourself, rather than harsh or critical.
For the listener, this might mean acknowledging the pain and betrayal she feels without immediately jumping to self-blame. It might mean allowing herself to grieve the loss of the relationship she thought she had, without feeling like she should have seen it coming or done something differently. It might also mean giving herself permission to take a step back, to take care of herself, and to prioritize her own healing.
Self-compassion is also about recognizing that we are all imperfect, that we all make mistakes, and that this does not diminish our worth. It’s about understanding that life is messy, and that sometimes things don’t go the way we planned. It’s about forgiving ourselves for the things we cannot control and for the times when we’ve done our best, but things still didn’t turn out the way we hoped.
For the listener, this might mean recognizing that she did her best in this situation. She took her time, made thoughtful decisions, and entered the relationship with an open heart. The fact that her husband was not honest with her is not a reflection of her worth or her judgment—it’s a reflection of his own struggles and choices.
This is why self-compassion is so important. It allows us to acknowledge our pain and our mistakes without letting them define us. It gives us the space to heal, to learn, and to grow. And it reminds us that we are worthy of love, respect, and kindness, even in the face of difficult circumstances.
Self-compassion also plays a crucial role in recovery, both for addicts and for their partners. For addicts, self-compassion can help break the cycle of shame and guilt that often drives addictive behaviors. By recognizing that they are worthy of love and acceptance, even in the face of their struggles, addicts can begin to build a healthier relationship with themselves and with others.
For partners, self-compassion can help them navigate the difficult emotions that come with betrayal and trauma. It can help them recognize that their pain is valid, that their feelings are important, and that they have the right to take care of themselves. It can also help them set healthy boundaries and make decisions that are in their best interest, rather than being driven by fear or guilt.
Ultimately, self-compassion is about reclaiming your worth and your power in the face of difficult circumstances. It’s about recognizing that you are deserving of love, respect, and kindness, and that you have the right to live a life that honors your values and your well-being.
Empowerment Through Accountability
One of the most powerful messages we discuss in this episode is the idea that self-compassion and accountability can coexist. We reject the notion that compassion diminishes accountability. Instead, we argue that true empowerment comes from embracing both. This means recognizing that while one may be a victim of another’s actions, one is also empowered to choose how to respond to those actions.
For the listener, this means recognizing her power to make choices about her future. Whether she decides to stay in the marriage and work through the challenges or to leave and pursue a different path, the decision is hers to make. It’s about reclaiming her agency and refusing to let the trauma dictate her life.
Empowerment is about recognizing that you have choices, even in difficult circumstances. It’s about understanding that you are not powerless, that you have the ability to make decisions that are in your best interest, and that you have the right to live a life that honors your values and your well-being.
For the listener, this might mean setting new boundaries with her husband, deciding what she needs in order to feel safe and supported in the relationship. It might mean seeking out therapy or support groups to help her process her emotions and gain clarity. It might also mean taking some time to reflect on what she wants for her future, whether that involves staying in the marriage or choosing a different path.
Empowerment through accountability also means recognizing that you are responsible for your own actions and choices. It’s about taking ownership of your life, rather than letting circumstances or other people dictate your decisions. This doesn’t mean that you are to blame for what has happened, but it does mean that you have the power to choose how you respond to it.
For the listener’s husband, empowerment through accountability means taking full responsibility for his actions and the impact they have had on his wife and their marriage. It means committing to the hard work of recovery, to making amends, and to rebuilding trust. It means recognizing that his actions have consequences, and that he has the power to change his behavior and make things right.
Empowerment is also about recognizing that you as a betrayed partner have the right to set boundaries, to protect yourself, and to prioritize your own well-being. It’s about understanding that you are not obligated to stay in a situation that is harmful or unhealthy, and that you have the right to make decisions that are in your best interest.
For the listener, this might mean deciding that she needs time and space to heal, that she needs her husband to take certain steps in his recovery before she can consider rebuilding the relationship. It might mean setting clear boundaries around what is and isn’t acceptable behavior in the relationship, and being willing to enforce those boundaries if they are crossed.
Empowerment through accountability is about taking control of your life and your decisions, rather than letting circumstances or other people dictate them. It’s about recognizing that you have the power to shape your future, and that you deserve to live a life that honors your values, your worth, and your well-being.
Conclusion: Moving Forward with Clarity and Strength
As the episode draws to a close, we offer some final thoughts for the listener and others who might find themselves in similar situations. We encourage her to take the time she needs to process her emotions, to seek support, and to make decisions that are true to her authentic self. We also remind her that she is not alone—many others have faced similar challenges, and there is a community of support available to her.
Ultimately, this episode is a powerful reminder that while life can be incredibly difficult and unpredictable, we all have the power to choose how we respond to the challenges we face. Whether it is through seeking help, setting boundaries, or making tough decisions, we can all find a path forward that honors our values, our worth, and our well-being.
Moving forward, it’s important for the listener to remember that healing is a process, and it’s okay to take things one step at a time. There’s no rush to make a decision, and it’s important to give herself the time and space she needs to process her emotions and to heal.
We also encourage her to seek out support, whether that’s through therapy, support groups, or trusted friends and family. Healing from trauma and betrayal is not something that should be done alone, and it’s important to have a support system in place to help you navigate the difficult emotions and decisions that come with it.
Finally, we remind her that she has the power to shape her future. Whether she decides to stay in the marriage and work through the challenges, or to leave and pursue a different path, the decision is hers to make. She has the power to choose what is best for her, and to build a life that honors her worth, her values, and her well-being.
As we conclude this episode, we hope that our discussion has provided some clarity, support, and guidance for the listener and for anyone else who might find themselves in a similar situation. Life is full of challenges, but we all have the power to choose how we respond to them, and to build a life that is true to who we are.
Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program Dare to Connect
Find out more about Steve Moore at Ascension Counseling
Learn more about Mark Kastleman at Reclaim Counseling Services
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